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Updated: 11:31 AM Nov 4, 2009
Springs Firefighter Voices Concern After Voters Reject Tax Hike
"What do we do now? Where do we go with it?" Posted: 11:29 AM Nov 4, 2009Reporter: Eric Lupher |
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Posted by: Voter
Location: CS
on Nov 4, 2009 at 05:42 PM
My vote would be to cut snow plow services. If you don't have the right kind of vehicle to go out in bad weather, then stay in. If you go out and get stuck, there are lots of businesses that would love to take your money to pull you out. Second, sell all the parks. Just think of all the developers who would love to build a whole business complex in places like Garden of the Gods. Third, lets get rid of the police and just let the natural order solve the problems. There are plenty of businesses you could hire for protection. Let's get rid of the health department. Why do we need food inspectors anyway. If you die from the flu, at least you probably paid less in taxes while you were alive. Yes, let's get rid of the government, because Wall street has never led us astray. They are really not that greedy. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Mike
Location: Cheyenne Hills
on Nov 4, 2009 at 04:46 PM
$100,000 for HR personnel? I will be watching every council member who votes to reduce fire and police before cutting City personnel and salaries. The threats to cut these and city parks better be just that, theats. I will vote against any council member who votes for these. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Chris
Location: Stetson Hills
on Nov 4, 2009 at 04:13 PM
Perhaps our elected officials should cut their OWN pay and benefits before laying off the men and women who keep all of us safe. I voted NO for two reasons. First, if you read the bill, the money was NOT slated for these services -- it was going to pay off debt our elected officials ran up. Second, a 200% property tax increase over three years when we're trying to recover from a recession is a bad idea. City Council needs to clean up their act and stop bribing the USOC to stay in town using OUR tax money. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Larry
Location: Rockrimmon
on Nov 4, 2009 at 03:55 PM
How about we move the USOC into the Pioneers museum? Maybe thats not posh enough for them ..... You would think our City leaders would have thought about this problem when they were signing the USOC agreement. I guess not. Now Lionel thinks the citizens are getting what the asked for. Less services. BS!!! Cutting Cops who only make $60k a year is dumb. We have 5 Human resource people making a $100k to $140K Jeeeze guys wake up. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Sonny
Location: Colo Spgs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 03:48 PM
Bigger goverment is not the answer to the challanges CS is facing. Our taxes are reasonable & that is one of the reason we live here. Families can not just add to their income when their costs go up. They have to figure out where they can reduce their spending. Governments shoud do the same. No place is guarenteed a continual ability to increase their spending but governments think they can always just raise taxes more. Figuring out how to be more efficient with the way tax money is spent is much harder than asking for more money. We DON'T want to become another CA that has taxed them selves to death & has only bigger problems to show for it. Our city currently has enough "unfilled" public safety positions to handle most of the potential "cuts" that might be necessary but there can be cuts in other areas that should make public safty cuts unnecessary. Why many $100,000s for fancy downtown intersections & we can't fix potholes. TABOR protects us all from gov't waste & abuse. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: John
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 03:41 PM
The blame should be put on the city officials and not on the tax payers. The city gave millions of our tax money to the USOC, and now they want to cut police and fire? Why give more money to city government to spend how they see fit? [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Valerie
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
on Nov 4, 2009 at 03:29 PM
It is time to replace the City Council! They are using scare tactics! The fact is we do not need to lay off fire or police or cut bus routes. What you need is a City Council that thinks out of the box. Example: our parks, why can’t we have local landscapers bid on taking care of the parks? It would be a flat amount, the lowest bid! Another example: We can have private companies that are located in Colorado Springs, make bids on different areas of Government, the lowest bid would win. Run Colorado Springs, like a business. Contract temporary services at a flat low bid, to replace clerks, secretaries, and non-essential jobs…on a yearly basis, let us bring in some Capitalism. City Council needs to stay in a budget, figure out what is left over after considering the essential jobs, which are fire and police! What is left over??? Then start the process of letting go city employees. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Rich
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 03:22 PM
I personally do not mind paying more taxes for city services. However, I did vote no on 2C. I do not think that it is fair that this burden be placed on homeowners only. I already have to pay to keep our schools running and have no children. The tax burden should affect everyone the same. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Suzanne
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 03:03 PM
I hope the (approx) $9.00 a month more(one fast food meal a month less)is worth it for you. Just pray you dont need their services in a timely manner or someone you love doesn't. You may want to invest in a good security alarm with a fire sprinkler system to protect you since you just voted against the ones who, day in and day out, do their best to keep you safe. Try and sleep well and dont complain later. You made your burning bed, lets hope you dont have to sleep in it. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: John
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 02:36 PM
Not a scare tactic - its reality. Services cost money, and those services cost more than they did 5 yrs ago. Dont complain when bus routes are discontinue, longer response times for fire and police, youth and adult sports programs are cut and more employee jobs are lost. Sure there is some over spending but people have to look at ALL services and the big picture. Not a good time to increase taxes but most things cost more to operate. City employees have to buy groceries, gas, pay bills and if we keep taking away from them and laying them off, it will effect us all. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: D
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 02:31 PM
At my company we have laid off over 50% and cut the workweek to 32 hours. Welcome to the club city of Colorado springs. Why don't the officials take a pay cut instead of an increase this year to help the city? Oh but when it comes out of their own pockets they don't want to do that. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Howard
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 02:17 PM
What we voters are upset about are; the USOC mess that is costing us millions, the high salaries and the obsessiveness with encouraging people and companies to move here and then unable to provide services due to lack of money. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Linda
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 02:10 PM
I think it's time to clean house in the City Council! Reduction of public safety funds should never be an option. Shame on those public officials! You need to be replaced! [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: 101011
on Nov 4, 2009 at 02:00 PM
yeah, lets cut city council pay, i mean they make like $6g's a year right? [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: ed
Location: Cs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:53 PM
Seems that reduced salaries would be a superior option to laying people off and having to replace them in future. Others are doing it why not the city?? [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: LBerg
Location: CS
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:36 PM
Everyone wants services for free. My property tax here in CO is half of what the tax is on my friend's house in TX even though my house costs twice as much as hers and wages are loger there. CO prop taxes are pretty low compared to most places. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: You are NOT over taxed
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:31 PM
People who think they are "overtaxed" or "taxed to death" make me laugh. Compare our taxes to any city of this size, anywhere in the country, and you'll see what "overtaxed" REALLY is. If you go to either coast, you'll even find that cities one-third this size pay WAY more in taxes than we do here. I know from experience, and that's why I moved here over 18 years ago. The mantra is that low taxes bring business, and that is true, to a point. QUALITY OF LIFE also brings business. LOW CRIME brings business. Our parks now look like inner city vacant lots, crime is going up, and cuts will only make things worse. I don't want east coast taxes here, but lets be real. It takes money to run a city, and the voters just cut their own throats. Maybe when this city starts looking like Detroit or Gary, Indiana will the taxpayers understand what it takes. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Lee Jablow
Location: El Paso Cty
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:27 PM
Well now its time for the city to ante up Mayor, Councilmen(women) give up part of your salaries and save the city. This goes for all the high paid directors also Leave the city owned entities alone they pay for themselves. Memorial Health System espicially, there employees are NOT I REPEAT NOT city employees thus not subject to disclosure. IT'S TIME TO LOOK AT THE PROBLEM!! GOV'T mismanagment [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Duh
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:22 PM
Yeah um $$ you're a fool. Council members make around $6k a year. Pretty sad actually. But you do get what you pay for. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Big
Location: Picture
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:16 PM
It will be fun to hear the whining when homeowners insurance premiums get hiked as a result of the increased fire response times.... [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Jim
Location: cos
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:11 PM
It is too bad the politicians dont pass a bill that would exclude police and firefighters from being cut. I understand not wanting more taxes but, losing firefighers and police is not the answer. Maybe all fical increases or decreases name specific departments. Cuts to our worthless trans dept. additions to our police...etc. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: RL
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:08 PM
I'm shocked at the ignorance of the voters in the Springs. There are already vacant fire stations, and now there will be more. Police and Fire fighters will lose their jobs over this, and you'll see it next week. Your excuse last election was poor oversight. Now you'll see - this is real. It will be so sad for those who lose their jobs and their families. The parks will dry up and become havens for crime and neglect. With the closing community centers (real), there will be young people on the street looking for something to do. Those of you who voted against 2C should be ashamed of yourselves! Are you trying to turn Colorado into California? [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Joya
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 01:04 PM
yes. lets cut the pay of city council. but do you know how much they actually make? because I hate to be the one to break it to you, but they make almost nothing for the amount of time they put in. I don't know the exact figure, but it is aroud $6,500. A YEAR. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: chuck
Location: colorado springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:53 PM
I feel the people don't trust our leaders from the president on down, but with out a city tax increase we can stop complaining about bad roads and all the rest.If we want good service from our city then we have to pay the price. If you don't trust city hall, vote them out. I also agree with $$. Start at the top with pay cuts. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: stephanie
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:53 PM
The reason the ballot lettering is short is because of TABOR, it makes it so that language is ambiguous and left up to those who are underinformed to make a serious decision based off of 30 words or less. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Someone with a brain
Location: Colorado Springs
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:50 PM
Way to go Colorado Springs voters. You've successfully signed off on the cutting of numerous city services such as emergency services and parks. All because of a very small tax hike. Colorado Springs has some of the lowest taxes in the state, yet we're "over taxed" here. How?! To those that opposed this, I know you're going to be the loudest complainers when the very things everyone was warning would go away does. Yet remember that this is what you wanted. This is what you voted for. You've made your bed, so don't complain when you have to lay in it. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Working Man
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:32 PM
"What do we do now? Where do we go with it?" Respectfully Sir, you continue to work until they tap you on the sholder and tell you your work is done here. [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: No taxes before reform
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:29 PM
The City still doesn't get it! They need to adjust their pay/benefits (as all private enterprises do) before trying to get an extreme tax hike out of people that are already suffering in this economy. I remember reading a story in early 2009 that the city paid out about a million in bonuses. Why not put that towards city services?? [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: $$
on Nov 4, 2009 at 12:19 PM
Lets start cuts from City Council pay and benefits and take it down the chain from there [ Report Abuse ]
Posted by: Concerned over taxed payer.
on Nov 4, 2009 at 11:43 AM
It sure would be a shame for the fire fighters to lose jobs after the city spent such large sums on new fire stations and equipment. This was just another scare tactic to raise our taxes! Lets stop the fraud, waste and abuse in the city, then seen what the budget looks like. [ Report Abuse ] |
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The City should have backed the the 1 cent sales tax. That was MUCH better and the funny thing is that if they would have, no one would be loosing their jobs. Pudge you are saying you would pay almost double your taxes NOW, but what happens when the market turns aroud and your taxes are being multiplied over and over each year. With the sales tax hike, you would still be in control. The county would have asked you for 10 bucks for every $1k. 2C was asking for the equivilant tax of someone spending $6k on TV's, computers and stereos, FOR JUST THE FIRST YEAR! after that you would have to spend close to $30k on TV's and other things that most people do not buy in a typical year. So do your math again, the city was wrong and greedy! Bring back 1A, atleast the county had a plan to help the rest of the community agencies and not hide the money to waste on the council members "private parties"
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The measure was voted down 2:1, get over it! The majority has spoken! Note: 4 mills to 10 mills, I don't think so! The government needs to get smallar.....please!! P.S. I don't drink Scotch! Not everyone in the Springs owns a home of your value.
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To Pudge, Right on! I agree 100%. Personally I like a nice Islay. To Mr X, The "PEOPLE" are idiots. Just look at these postings. If 400,000 people belive in a dumb idea it's still a dumb idea.
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My house is valued at $242,000. The portion of my property tax that goes to the city would have increased the first year from $95.27 to $152.00 if 2C had passed! (I did the math.) That is the cost of a bottle of single malt Scotch whiskey. A pretty small price to have the Fire Department come extinguish a fire or for the PD to arrest my wife for domestic violence. Too many people thought their "property tax" would go up to the $2500 to $3000 range. That is what you get when you listen to the politicians. There should be a test before you are allowed to vote! Educate yourself before you go to the polls. Don't swallow everything our premier tax reformist tries to cram down your neck. I'm not sure you will be comfortable with the resultant level of squalor his cuts will lead to. Nobody rides for free and the road won't pave itself. This is a great town. I hope I can say that 5 years from now.
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Mayor bob is turning over in his grave. To see what has happend in coloreado springs. (wwbid) i hope you guys find a good plan. dont cut fire and police
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The voters have made their decision. It's time to quit complaining about the outcome and make the hard choices that need to be made. Our economy has shrunk, so it's only natural that the govenment should shrink. You can belittle me about my opinion; however, I speak with the majority.
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Lee you're an idiot..support non-profits these men and women risk their lives to save yours....and Jon your also the same idiot yes we sacrificed alot of missed family time, stress, beating the hell out of our bodies...fire and police work hard and have earned those things....there I feel better.....
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as usual,,,,,,after a defeat,,,,,,2c and 300,,,,,here we go with all the crying and boo hooing. the PEOPLE have spoken. once we get all the crooks out of city council and that will be the next election maybe then we will have a legit city goverment that'll be for the PEOPLE and not money hungary mongers as we have now that have caused all the problems that we have now. i'am ready to cast my ballot now to get rid of the jerks and a better city goverment. mayor Rivera you know this is your last service or have you ever served the people of colorado springs. you're a total washout.
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Increase fines from traffic violations and other criminal acts. City Officials need to reconsider their pay increase as well. There is nothing wrong with a pay cut. i am in the Military and do not make enough as it is but yet I support my family and pay my bills. The city is wasting money on thing that aren't a necessity such as USOC. WHo cares about the USOC put it up in Denver if they want to keep it in Colorado. There are ways to raise money our city officials are just too lazy. I can't even get anyone to answer the phone to answer a question I may have. What are these people doing? There are plenty of Businesses out there such as Walmart who can afford an increase in obtaining a business license to operate.
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The fundamental problem to me appears the City Council, Planning Commission, and/or City Management allowed substantial City growth for years without providing sustainable funding sources to pay for the growth. By 2008, the City over spent revenues by ~$23M leading to layoffs and City Manager's fix of a "systemic problem". The City is spending $15M over five years for IT improvements when significantly less could have been spent. Councilman Gallagher asserts large public safety management increases. Where are discussions on increasing the span of control of managers/supervisors and/or flattening the organizational structure vertically. You only hear layoffs in terms of staff. Is this the "manager/supervisor protective association" at work? I don't believe there is sufficient information to know. Unfortunately, with public safety accounting for ~1/2 the budget there is no budget fix without affecting public safety—or City will not have transit, parks, and street maintenance.
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My big question was "why should the CALM and LAW ABIDING folks in the northern part of the Springs take the brunt of this tax increase?" Our homes are worth much more than the homes in the southern part of the city. Why should we provide free police and fire services to people who live in appartments and hovels -- they pay low or no taxes yet they seem to be the ones commiting all the crimes and starting all the fires!!!
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Jon, that's a pass the buck mentality if I ever saw one; let's ride the city budget and the services we all use on the backs of the city employee. It's not them being selfish as much as it should be common sense. If we all use the services, why shouldn't we all pay for them instead of punishing those who provide those services by making them take a pay cut just for the sake of easing the situation for the rest of us. If we wanted services to remain or pass their current levels, we should have voted differently. It's unfortunate that you would even think it appropriate to decrease pay levels and take away the "toys" our city servants have earned because the voters didn't agree with the wording or concept of the proposal. I guess misery loves company.
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Common sense tells me that you do not raise taxes when people are losing their jobs and homes. If you don't understand that then you need to get out of government.
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Raise property taxes? When we as taxpayers are forced to support non-profits that we don't agree with because the idiots that run our city continually give money away? I agree with the other commentors that say the council members should sacrifice their salaries first. They don't always earn them.
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If fire and police want to keep there jobs they should all think about taking a pay cut, I see many firefighters get paid very well to keep their toys (boats, motorhomes, nice homes, etc) There are many other dept out there that make way less then these big city depts, I can see why budget cuts back are going to happen. In these smaller departments, there are not going to be any lay offs but are also doing financially good. It is how wise you spend the money. A big portion goes to salary pay, if you are so worried about protecting then take a pay cut don't be so selfish.
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